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Zecco.com » General Investing » Tax Matters » Wash Sales????
Last post 09-26-2008, 2:31 PM by DPUMA8. 9 replies.
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  •  07-24-2008, 7:11 PM 34249

    Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote

    I'm trying to figure out wash sales. Correct me if I'm wrong - A wash sale is created when you sell a stock for a loss and then buy it back for a lower price. Like if I originally bought AAPL for $165 sold AAPL for $162 and then bought back in at $158 within 30 days of selling. The consequence is that I can't declare the $3 loss on my taxes.

    Are there any other circumstances that a wash sale occurs? Are there any more downsides besides not claiming the capital loss? Or just correct me if I'm totally wrong. Thanks!

  •  07-24-2008, 7:25 PM 34251 in reply to 34249

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    The price at which you repurchase the stock within the 60 day window is irrelevant.  The loss is still disallowed.
  •  07-24-2008, 9:32 PM 34258 in reply to 34249

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote

    Wash sales aren't totally a bad thing.  No you can't declare the $3 loss.  HOWEVER, your cost basis on the new position is adjusted by the loss.  You add the $3 loss to your purchase price to get your new cost basis.  A downside may be, though, that your holding period includes the original shares holding period.  You cannot convert a long-term loss into a short-term loss.

     

    So, in your example, say you bought AAPL 14 months ago for $165, and sold it July 10th for $162.  A long-term loss of $3.  You buy back at $158 on July 23rd.  This is a wash sale, you cannot claim a long-term loss.  However, You can add the $3 to your basis.  So instead of $158, your cost basis would be $161.  If you sell at $165, you only realize a $4 gain for tax purposes.  If you sell them for $158 on August 3rd (the same price you paid for the shares), you report a $3 loss.  Again, your holding period, though, goes back 14+ months to when you first purchased the shares.  So this would be a long-term capital loss.  Which could be unfortunate if you wanted to offset some STCG.

     

    Another downside would be a wash sale that brackets two tax years.  So if you sold the shares the last week of December 2007 to offset gains, and repurchased them in the first week of January 2008, you'll lose the benefit for 2007.

     

    Here's a pretty good reference:  http://www.fairmark.com/

  •  07-24-2008, 9:58 PM 34260 in reply to 34258

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    If your account is flagged as a day trader account, the wash sale rule may not apply to you.  You may want to read more about it here:  http://www.fairmark.com/
  •  07-24-2008, 10:17 PM 34261 in reply to 34249

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    These are all good questions and comments. Zecco Trading customers who subscribe to GainsKeeper Tax  Planning Tools have a wash sales indicator so they can see exactly when to buy or sell, and avoid wash sales.

    For more information, click here: https://www.zecco.com/trading/GainsKeeper.aspx?gkTab=Taxes

    Hope that helps.

    Zecco Editor
  •  08-20-2008, 1:52 PM 35871 in reply to 34249

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    Here are the rules.  If you bought a stock for $10 and then sold it for $5, then you would have a $5 loss you can claim on your taxes.  If you buy that same stock within 30 days then you have a wash sale and your $5 loss can't be deducted on your tax return.

    As far as the capital loss, capital losses are offset by capital gains while short term losses are taxed at short term gains.  Either way you can deduct a maximum of $3000 in losses on your tax return.  Any excess is carried over to the next year.  So if you have $5000 of long term losses or $5000 of short term losses, it really doesn't matter that much because you can take a maximum of $3000 in losses.

    The real difference between long term gains and short term gains is the short term will be taxed.  If you are in the 25% tax bracket, your short term gains will be taxed at 25%.  If you have long term gains, those gains will be taxed at 15%

    If you are not a huge earner, then there is a nice capital gain tax thing going on for the next three years.  If your taxable income is below I think it is $65,100 (All forms of income-itemized deductions-exemptions), your capital gains tax will be ZERO!  Yes!  Zero!  So for example, if you make $70,000 a year in wages, and sold $30,000 in capital gains stock, your total income is $100,000.  Say your itemized deductions are $40,000, and your exemption is $3450, then your taxable income is $56,550.  So this means that $7,550 (64100-56550=7550) will be taxed at zero percent and the rest is taxed at 15%.

    So the point I am getting at, is if you are long on some stocks, why sell it only to buy it back soon?  Keep it and when it gains, you can sell it tax free of any gains.

    Dom- CPA in training
  •  09-22-2008, 1:53 AM 39232 in reply to 34249

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    Just about everybody is WRONG WRONG WRONG, even Mr. CPA-in-training. You can claim losses on wash sales; it's just that it's a matter of the specific timeframe in which you can claim the loss. If you take a loss on a wash sale, the loss is added to the new shares you just bought of that same security. I.e. The wash sale adjusts the cost basis of your new order so essentially, the loss is reflected in the purchase of the new securities.


    The way everyone is writing, it seems like once you have a wash sale, you're done. That's wrong. Wash sales carry over to the next trade (of the same underlying security) which increases your cost basis.



    FACT: Filing your tax return yourself through Turbotax, etc. is more accurate than filing through a CPA. Just because you see the CPA designation doesn't mean squat. Also, CPA firms LOVE outsourcing. Yes, they will outsource your tax return to some guy working in a cubicle in some other country. Ultimately liability falls on you, the taxpayer.


    If you are filing a 1040 or 1040 equivalent, please don't waste money on a CPA.

  •  09-22-2008, 1:55 AM 39233 in reply to 35871

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    DPUMA8:
    Here are the rules.  If you bought a stock for $10 and then sold it for $5, then you would have a $5 loss you can claim on your taxes.  If you buy that same stock within 30 days then you have a wash sale and your $5 loss can't be deducted on your tax return.

    As far as the capital loss, capital losses are offset by capital gains while short term losses are taxed at short term gains.  Either way you can deduct a maximum of $3000 in losses on your tax return.  Any excess is carried over to the next year.  So if you have $5000 of long term losses or $5000 of short term losses, it really doesn't matter that much because you can take a maximum of $3000 in losses.

    The real difference between long term gains and short term gains is the short term will be taxed.  If you are in the 25% tax bracket, your short term gains will be taxed at 25%.  If you have long term gains, those gains will be taxed at 15%

    If you are not a huge earner, then there is a nice capital gain tax thing going on for the next three years.  If your taxable income is below I think it is $65,100 (All forms of income-itemized deductions-exemptions), your capital gains tax will be ZERO!  Yes!  Zero!  So for example, if you make $70,000 a year in wages, and sold $30,000 in capital gains stock, your total income is $100,000.  Say your itemized deductions are $40,000, and your exemption is $3450, then your taxable income is $56,550.  So this means that $7,550 (64100-56550=7550) will be taxed at zero percent and the rest is taxed at 15%.

    So the point I am getting at, is if you are long on some stocks, why sell it only to buy it back soon?  Keep it and when it gains, you can sell it tax free of any gains.

    Dom- CPA in training


    You also need to mention how many of the provisions you refer to are set to expire in 2010 unless Congress extends them.

  •  09-26-2008, 2:30 PM 40002 in reply to 39232

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    WHAT????

    Man, do you have something against CPAs!

    I think that TurboTax is great and everyone should use it over a CPA.  That is right!!!  BUT!!  If you have any more advanced dealings going on, then it is a better idea to see a CPA.  During tax season we do many amendments because although TurboTax is accurate, the user might not enter it in correctly or classify it wrong.  It happens all the time!

    Outsourcing?  Wow.  Don't go to those places then.  I really don't know of anyone who outsources tax returns but the signature on the bottom shows who will be responsible if the tax return is wrong and the CPA was negligent.  Can turbotax be held liable for any mistakes?  No!  It is 100% all you!

    "Ultimately liability falls on you, the taxpayer. "  That is correct!  You supply a tax professional the information and we do the tax return.  If you omit important information and that isn't the CPA's fault, it is yours UNLESS the CPA is negligent. 

    Fixing a computer isn't completely hard but if you don't do it right, you can screw it up more if it is more advanced than you can handle.  That is why there are computer repair technicians.  Some people can do repairs on their own, some can't.  That is why there are service professionals.  If you feel comfortable doing your own taxes then go for it.  If you have advanced things going on your tax return and might do your return wrong, then maybe it should be best to see a CPA.  CPA's are just like any other service.

    Now the point I was making about the wash sale was a simplified version of if he buys a stock, sells it, buys it again within 30 days, then he CAN'T claim a loss on his tax return.  That is his question.  I am keeping it simple.  Yes you are correct but that is more advanced.


  •  09-26-2008, 2:31 PM 40004 in reply to 39233

    Re: Wash Sales????

    Reply Quote
    Well, I guess we should all mention the expiration dates of ALL tax laws since none of them are set in stone and need extensions by congress.
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